The center-left Labor Party’s participation in the unity government cost the party considerable public support, especially as political violence and suicide attacks escalated and Sharon’s hard-line approach made him one of the most popular Israeli leaders in years. The situation came to a head in October when Labor walked out of the coalition government after Sharon refused to cut funding for Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
The collapse of the coalition forced Sharon to call early elections for January. Peres, a former prime minister who served as foreign minister in Sharon’s cabinet, holds the third position on Labor’s electoral list and is therefore certain to be returned to parliament. His once-powerful party however, faces the prospect of losing about six of its 26 seats in the 120-member Knesset. Looking visibly fatigued after his party’s internal vote to select its election candidates earlier this week, Peres spoke to NEWSWEEK’s Samir Zedan in his Tel Aviv office. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: You joined Ariel Sharon’s government of national unity because you argued that Labor’s involvement would help the peace process. Yet the level of violence has increased and the security situation in Israel has deteriorated since Sharon took office.
Shimon Peres: Without us the situation would have deteriorated more. The government decided not to put on more settlements and not to annul the previous agreements [with the Palestinian Authority]. There were the negotiations between Abu Ala [Ahmed Qrei, president of the Palestinian Legislative Council] and myself [about a final-status agreement on the Gaza Strip and West Bank]. And finally, Mr. Sharon [now] accepts a Palestinian state. [For somebody from the Israeli right] to accept the partition of land for a Palestinian state is quite sensational … We do not say we achieved everything, but we affected a great deal of the [government] policies.
Sharon’s popularity has increased since he was elected 21 months ago. Did you help to boost his image?
His popularity has boomed because of the Camp David failure. If there is no Palestinian partner to negotiate with, [the Israeli public believes] Sharon is the best answer. In my judgment, the left and the right have two problems in Israel: the left does not understand that you cannot make peace without a majority and the right does not understand that you cannot have peace without the Palestinians. These are the two great mistakes in the Israeli perceptions … The contradiction is that most of the people in Israel are for a Palestinian state, they are for giving up settlements, they are for a retreat from most of the territories-or all the territories. Why does this not affect [the results of] the Israeli elections? [Because Israelis] say the Palestinians are not partners, they did not stop terror, and they do not keep their word.
Will it be possible to form another national unity government after next month’s election?
Our [electoral] system means there won’t be a party that can form a government on its own. It will be a coalition government. Either one right-wing coalition of the fanatics and the extremists or one coalition of the center-secular, the moderate [parties]. The Labor Party will not join the right wing of the fanatics and extremists, but Labor can be a key player in building a moderate peaceful coalition … The Labor Party shall join [with the Likud Party] if we can agree on the platform … I am trying to have a government in Israel that is more to the center, moderate, and not under the control of the extremists.
You have said that Likud’s candidate list indicates that the party is becoming more extreme and that this reduces the prospects for a peace agreement. So how can you consider joining in another coalition government?
I will make a deal with the whole world: give us a Palestinian [negotiating] partner and we shall give you peace. If there is a partner who is in control of the [Palestinian] armed groups and in control of the flow of the money, I guarantee you we are going to have peace in a very short time, regardless of who is in power in Israel.
The Palestinian moderates believe that the area will have four tough years ahead if Sharon is elected again. Should they be worried?
Why should we have tough four years? The Palestinians, just like us, are dependent upon the international community. You cannot build a Palestinian state without recognizing Palestinian legitimacy. With terror, there will be no recognition of legitimacy and without transparency there would not be financial support. For the sake of future Palestinian destiny they must take themselves into their own hands-not to serve Israel, but to serve themselves and show that they have one headquarters for arms and a clean hand for money. I am telling you: give us a partner, and we shall make plans.
How do you foresee changes taking place on the Palestinian side while Palestinians face curfews, closures and other restrictions?
You think I like what is happening for the three and half million Palestinians? Believe me, I feel terrible about it. We are not interested in seeing the Palestinian people suffer … I do not want to create the impression that Israel is firing or nominating Palestinian leaders. It is for the Palestinians to decide. I do not attack any person, but rather a system. If only Arafat would do what [former South African president] Nelson Mandela did. Mandela was also a revolutionary, and once the revolution achieved its main goals, they nominated someone else to run daily [government]. I told Mandela that if Arafat would do what he did, Arafat would be highly respected and highly influential. Arafat was very impressive as a leader of a revolution and is now considered very unimpressive as a leader of a state.
What are your views on the current regional situation and the war on terror?
Muslims in the world will have to decide whether to support or harbor terror. The West does not accuse Islam of being a religion of terror. The problem is not Islam but rather some Muslims. In many countries, they are dictators who harbor terror, discriminate against women, permit corruption and kill their own people. Nobody can force Muslims to change their way of life, just as nobody can force Christians, Jews and Buddhists to change their ways of life. China with communism has changed for a modern economy, Europe has united and Latin America is reuniting. I believe you can be a Muslim [and at the same time] modern, peaceful and progressive.
What are the different scenarios if there is war in Iraq?
This will be a war managed by the United States and not by us. It is not an Israeli war but an American war. Iraq is a land of terror and may give unconventional weapons to terrorists. Nobody is against Iraq or the Iraqi people, yet Saddam Hussein is a murderer, killer, aggressor and does not tell the truth. Iraq is made up of intelligent people and very fertile land, and they do not deserve to be punished by having someone like Saddam Hussein as their leader.
What will the Middle East look like in the near future?
The Middle East will have to decide in three to four years either to become the most dangerous region in the world or an advanced region. Its [future] depends upon the Arabs and depends upon us. The Arab nations must help build a Palestinian government that could be a partner [with Israel]. On the international level, [Arabs must] say no to war, no to terror, no to dictators, no to discrimination and no to the fanatics. They should open their hearts and minds for a new world. There is no contradiction between being an Arab and being a Muslim and being modern. [On our side,] we should recognize a Palestinian state. We should give back land to the Palestinians. We should give them a position in Jerusalem and we should cooperate with them to build a modern environment. You cannot say that Islam is fanaticism and terror. That is not true. Islam is a noble religion and the Arabs should offer their children a different future. They should not kill, and they should not get killed.
