Junta says he acted in self-defense–a claim that’s difficult for some to believe when comparing the 275-pound truck driver to the 156-pound victim. NEWSWEEK’s Jennifer Barrett spoke with Dr. Aaron Kipnis, president of the non-profit California-based Fatherhood Coalition and author of three books on the male psychology, about Junta’s self-defense argument and about the effects of violence, both on and off the rink, on those who watch or participate.
NEWSWEEK: According to court testimony, the fight between the two “hockey dads” ensued after one insisted that the other’s son’s behavior was too violent. Thomas Junta’s lawyer says Costin allegedly told Junta that high sticks and rumbling were simply part of the game. “That’s not hockey,” Junta supposedly replied. “Hockey’s not about hitting. Hockey is about fun!” How is someone able to argue against violence on the rink and then start a violent fight off the ice?
Dr. Aaron Kipnis: The two acts are irreconcilable, and they’re indicative of how irrational he was. On the one hand, he was abhorring violence towards his son but then he was resorting to violence to protect him. Initially it seemed he was trying to defend his son from being roughed up. But, then again, if you don’t want your son to be roughed up, you probably should not let him play hockey.
I can’t do an analysis of Mr. Junta without interviewing him, but it seems he has low self-esteem and low impulse control. This doesn’t seem so different from the kinds of things that happen every day out on the streets–road rage, or one gang member insulting another, and then it escalates to a deadly conflict. America is always shocked when violence in the middle class emerges. There’s some fantasy that the middle class is immune to violence but that’s never been the case.
Do you think the fact that these men were watching their sons rough each other up on the ice first might have contributed to the violent nature of their confrontation?
I think that violent combat sports teach our youth that the most violent guy wins. The toughest, most ruthless and aggressive male is the hero. That’s the guy who gets the letter sweater. We don’t give those out to our poets, our activists, the guy who does community service. We also award these dominant athletes with money. Parents and coaches are all buying into this cultural violence.
What are we teaching our children by having them play hockey and football or other combat sports? Parents that go to these things are to a degree supporting a culture of violence. There are a lot of other sports we could choose–a lot of competitive sports–in which hurting the guy on the other team is not part of the sport. People may argue that hockey is not intrinsically violent, but just look at hockey players–they all have bruises and broken bones. It’s a violent arena and the adrenaline is pumping among both players and spectators. Those who have anger control problems, impulse problems, low self-esteem, or maybe they’re just having a bad day, it just makes the slope towards violence more slippery.
You don’t seem so surprised by this case.
We’ve been seeing more of these kinds of incidences among fans and parents. There is an extreme pressure among middle class and upper middle class parents for having children reach new heights of achievement and a sense that you can’t succeed anymore in America unless you’re a star. In that pressured environment, the stakes can seem higher than they should be for a child’s game, or child’s play. And parents get caught up in that web of anxiety that if their kid doesn’t excel, he won’t make it.
In court testimony, there was a hint at the “beast” within Junta that emerged when he began arguing with Costin. What is the nature of the beast? Where does it come from? How can we tame it?
Well, we all have a beast within. We may not have all experienced it in our lifetimes, but I think many of us have. Something unexpected emerges and we say or do something that we later regret. An impulse gets the best of us. It’s that old saying: the devil made me do it.
With anger management training, we try and help people develop ego strength, self esteem and self control. Sometimes it’s as easy as counting from one to three. Not everyone has learned to manage their anger. We are a very angry society, a very violent society.
Is there a chance for rehabilitation in a case like this?
I think there is a great deal of hope for most people, male and female, who commit violent acts. Only a small minority of violent offenders are psychopaths or sociopaths–like the serial killers we see in movies who feel no remorse, have no conscience, and are even sadistic sometimes, feeling joy in other people’s pain. They are very very difficult to treat. They are criminals who need to be locked up to protect society. But the majority of people who commit acts of violence aren’t like that; they feel remorse, they feel ashamed and they wish they could take it back. They can be helped through treatment and therapy and dealing with root issues that have eroded their own sense of self. They can develop that sense of self esteem and well-being and self control that allows them to be an adult and mature citizen who manages anger in productive ways through dialogue and creative or productive action. You can probably think of 100 ways that he [Junta] could have managed his anger in a way that was productive for him, his family and everyone else there.
People who don’t have a strong grip on their maturity, who act impulsively or irrationally, often it’s about some wound inside themselves that has never been addressed and suddenly they feel small or threatened–even by a force much smaller than themselves. That could be the case here.
But, whatever the combination of events was that came together with him [Junta], I’m not saying anything excuses his behavior or minimizes what he’s done. He should be held accountable. It’s a horrible tragedy and all the more horrible for happening over such minor consequences. That’s what tips us off that it’s more of a psychological event than an issue-related event. When the act seems unprovoked, or the provocation seems minor in relation to the response, then we know something deeply psychological is going on.
According to testimony given by the rink manager, some of the 11-year-old and 12-year-old children there were watching the fatal fight–and at least one was crying. What kind of lasting effect do you think this might have on these kids?
First, let me say that youth are very resilient and they can recover from the worst kinds of horrific experiences. But we shouldn’t minimize the seriousness of watching one person’s father beat another one’s father to death. This shakes their fundamental sense of safety and the belief that the world is a safe and good place. It could potentially have a significant effect on them. Studies show that merely witnessing violence is as traumatic for children as being physically abused themselves.
This isn’t the kind of thing where they should just have a chat about it and move on. Parents should be very sensitive to the way they are reacting. Just as we bring in community counselors after an air crash, this community should bring in counselors and community workers to deal with, not just kids, but with whole community and try and gain an understanding of what happened and have an open forum for people to express their feelings.
Also, children who witness violence, even in watching combat sports, are much more likely to perpetrate it. They see this is how adults solve their problems. But this [case] could also have the opposite effect because it is such a cautionary tale. They could say, See what happens when you don’t learn how to solve your problems in other ways. There’s an opportunity here to instill a deeper ethos of nonviolence in these children.
Some of the children who were there when Costin was killed are expected to testify this week. Do you think they should? How do you feel about putting children on the stand?
I don’t see why not. The courtroom is not therapeutic in itself but this gives them a chance to be a part of the deconstruction process, instead of just trying to pretend this didn’t happen. It did happen and they were part of it. Not that it won’t be emotional and difficult, but it’s a safe environment with their parents there, and the other kids there. After the shootings at Columbine High School, there was all this spontaneous ritual. People kept coming back to the site to work through the event, bringing pictures and talking to each other. It’s very important to talk through it. Parents should begetting together with these kids and schools should be giving these kids forums to talk.
Do you think this was an isolated event, or do these types of violent arguments–though without such tragic consequences–occur regularly? What can our society do to prevent something like this from happening again?
I don’t know what the statistics are, but I know we have one of the highest rates of violence and homicides in the industrialized world and a higher percentage of our population incarcerated than in any other nation on earth. We have to accept that we live in an extremely violent society–it’s something we don’t want to look at.
It seems that there is a lessening of civility and respect amongst people and an increasing irritability or rudeness. There is certainly an opportunity here to try and make meaning out of this act in that community, the hockey community, to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again. Maybe if coaches are going to teach violent sports and parents are going to participate as spectators, there should be a forum for dispute. There is one on the field–there are referees and rules. We need that same thing among parents and spectators. Maybe coaches could fill that role. They could tell spectators that if they’re angry about a call, or angry at another parent, take it to the coach.
I wonder too, where were the other parents when this happened? That’s a problem too. What can we do to keep this from happening again? Get involved. That’s what we learned recently with the passengers on United Flight 93. And we saw that when passengers overtook the “shoe bomber.” We’re all in this together. It’s not my kid versus yours, but what we need as a community, how we can help one another. These are traditional American values. And it’s the duty of every citizen to enforce our laws and our values.
